Minutes of MPBA Fast Electric Section AGM 2012

Friday 20th July

1. Meeting opened at 7:34pm

2. Members present:

Allan Shillito, Torran Hayward, Bill Hickman, Mark Shipman, Simon Mitchell, Paul Heaton, David Harvey, Chris Osman, Ian Williams, George Roberts, Ian Phillips, Paul Upton-Taylor, Rob Physick, Martin Harvey, John Foster, Peter Barrow, Ian Rees, Nigel Bennett, George McDonald, Malcolm Franks, Ken Bullough, Mark Sutton, Phil Miller, Bob Bryant, Steven Bennett, Russ Chilcott, Gary Westwood, Martin Marriott, Lee Heath, Paul Heath, James Bond, Aran Bond, Stephe Hart, Roger Graves, Donatas Ceponis, Mantas Ceponis, Steve Whenham.

3. Minutes of 2011 AGM

A copy of the minutes of the 2011 AGM had been left in the club house all day and had also been on the FES website all year. There being no changes the minutes were put forward for acceptance. Proposed by Mark Shipman, seconded by Bill Hickman.

4. Chairman’s Report

Peter explained that as stated last year he would not be standing for chairman this year. It has been a fairly quiet year. Some members went to Moers. There have been 137 boats entered for this year’s Nationals.

5. Treasurers Report

A balance sheet as such is not available but the money in the MPBA FES central fund stands at £1903.22 including £388 for this year’s grant. There were entry fees for the Nationals of £846 excluding the team event money, so there was still more to come from the team event (which would depend on the number of boats left to race). Expenses were £300 for the hire of the lake, £233 for trophies including 2 for a previous year when team trophies were not presented for second and third places, £56 for the certified weight for the scales. The profit from the event would be £257. Total funds stand at about £2450.

Allan Shillitto asked if we were getting any interest on the money. Martin Harvey explained that the question had been raised at a MPBA exec meeting and the meeting had been told that it was too complicated to get interest as it would involve corporation tax as the MPBA is run as a company.

6. Secretary’s Report

Martin explained that there had not been much going on with the MPBA. There had been a presentation by Slade Perkins, the MPBA insurance broker. The cover is not only third party but also gives corporate cover for the association and member clubs. One thing that was brought up was the need for risk assessments. It is not enough for instance to simply put up warning notices; it is necessary to actually be seen to be acting on anyone seen to be contravening the safety guidance, otherwise the insurance would not cover any claims. Martin gave an example of an incident (not related to the MPBA) where safety instructions had been given but not acted on when they were contravened. The person in charge was found to be negligent as he had been watching but failed to stop the action.

Another issue raised was the maximum length of boats. Currently it is 2.5 metres and it had been suggested that this be raised to 4 metres. Whilst this is unlikely to impact the Fast Electric section it does impact other sections. Coming out of this discussion was the fact that there is a maximum capacity for i/c engines of 35cc but there is no limit for electric power. This matter was generally put down by the other sections who stated that it was really only a matter for the FE section. A member stated that the maximum voltage was 43v, but Martin pointed out that this was the maximum voltage for the classes run but there was no maximum voltage for general electric powered boats. This issue would be discussed later.

The Multi section had asked for a loan of £1500 to purchase a digital scoreboard. This request was granted on the basis that it was repaid in a maximum of 4 years and preferably 3 years. The section said that this would have to be taken back to their members. Steve Whenham stated that the loan had not been taken up as the section members had decided to pay for it themselves.

7. SAWS Officer

David explained that the records day was not held last year due to lack of water. There had been two new gravel pits dug near the Branston lakes and these had taken the water from the water table. The current situation is that the water level is back up and the SAWS meeting will hopefully be on this year. The water is rather cloudy so this may stop the sun getting to the weed and stop it from growing.

8. International Officer

Paul said that it is not known when or where the next Worlds will be. It could be Belgium, it could be Russia. It could be 2013, it could be 2014. Peter Barrow said that falls in line with the French saying that it could be Disneyland in 2014.

9. Area Reps

Mark Shipman stated that there was nothing to report for the Southwest other than membership goes from strength to strength with sixty entries at events.

Paul Upton-Taylor stated that membership had declined but was now increasing. Events still go on.

Peter Barrow said that as he was not standing for re-election he would like to thank the committee for their work over the year. This year there would be some prizes given other than the trophies. There will be a motor for Mini Mono class from Modelhaus, a pack of 6200 cells for Eco Expert and a pack of 6200 cells for Mono 1 from RC BONKAS.

Ian Phillips proposed a vote of thanks to Peter for all the work he had put in over the past years.

10. Election of Officers

There had been one proposal for chairman and one for International rep.

Chairman – Chris Osman . Proposed by Bill Hickman, seconded by Torran Hayward

A vote was taken. 34 for with 2 against

Secretary – Martin Harvey to retain. Passed unanimously.

Treasurer – John Foster to retain. Passed unanimously.

Nationals Booking Officer – Ian Phillips to retain. Passed unanimously.

International Rep

Peter Barrow – proposed by Martin Harvey, seconded by David Harvey. Votes for – 2

Paul Heaton willing to retain. Passed by majority.

SAWS Officer – David Harvey to retain. Passed unanimously.

Northern Rep – Rob Physick. Passed unanimously.

Southern Rep – Paul Upton Taylor to retain. Passed unanimously.

Southwest – Mark shipman. Passed unanimously.

11. A.O.B.

11.1 Scale Hydro Cell count

A discussion took place about the cell count for scale hydro class. Paul Upton Taylor proposed that it be raised from 6 to 8 cells. Bill Hickman seconded. Passed unanimously.

11.2 Seeding for Nationals Heats

Seeding of competitors for the Nationals was debated. There was a proposal that the top entrants from the previous year be put in the same heat and overseas guests be put in a separate heat. A long debate then took place around the various merits of driving with other competitors of mixed ability. Simon Mitchell proposed that heats be seeded but that there should be an option to opt for random selection, such option to be on the entry form. The proposal was seconded by Torran Hayward. Passed unanimously.

11.3 LiPo Batteries

LiPo batteries were discussed at length to try to find a way of defining the physical attributes of cells so as to try to get the use of cheaper/more reliable cells. It was decided that a small advisory group be set up to look at this issue and report back to the section with a view to putting a proposal to NAVIGA. Two members from each area were selected for the group: North – Peter Barrow and Paul Heaton, South – Stephe Hart and Paul Upton-Taylor, Southwest – Mark Shipman and Chris Osman

11.4 Entry Fees for Nationals

Entry fees for the Nationals were discussed. Peter Barrow said that he did not think that we were making enough profit from the entry fees. Stephe Hart asked if medals for the team event were given for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. The answer was yes. Stephe pointed out that the team entry fee would therefore not cover the cost of the medals and proposed that the entry fee for the team event be put up to £10 per team. This was seconded by Ian Phillips. Passed unanimously.

11.5 Worlds Qualifying Year

The qualifying year for entry to the Worlds was discussed. There has been a difference of opinions as to whether it should be the year prior to the actual year of the Worlds, or the year prior to when the Worlds have been planned to be held. The latter allowing for any occasion when the Worlds get cancelled. David Harvey said that it had always been based on the prior year’s results. Martin Harvey said that the problem was that there was nothing written down to state what the rules actually were. Martin Harvey suggested that the wording should be that for the World Championships the qualifiers come from the prior year’s Nationals. This was proposed by Mark Shipman and seconded by Simon Mitchell. Passed unanimously.

11.6 Mini Classes for NAVIGA

There was a proposal that NAVIGA be asked to introduce classes for mini mono and mini hydro with the following specifications:

Mini mono –

Hull length – maximum 450mm

Batteries -2/3 cell, 110gm max

Run time – 6 minutes plus 10 sec mill time

No weight restriction

Mini hydro –

Hull length – maximum 450mm

Batteries -2-3 cell, 110gm max

Run time – 5 minutes plus 10 sec mill time

No weight restriction

Formally proposed by David Harvey and seconded by Mark Shipman. Passed unanimously.

11.7 Race Time for Mono and Hydro Classes

There had been a proposal to make a proposal to NAVIGA to increase the run time for mono1, mono 2, hydro 1 and hydro 2 by 30 seconds. This proposal was amended as it had been made known that electronic timing did not allow for anything other than whole minutes. Stephe Hart said that he thought that the mono classes were ok but that if the hydro classes were not increased to 6 minutes plus 10 sec mill time then these classes would be lost as a NAVIGA class (due to the high speed of these boats felt to be unduly dangerous). The proposal to increase hydro 1 and 2 run time to 6 minutes plus 10sec mill time was put to a vote. The result was for – 6, against – 4, abstentions – 14.

11.8 Trim Tabs

The question as to whether trim tabs should be included in the hull length was raised for those classes where a length restriction existed. Martin Harvey explained that at the moment the rules stated that the 450mm ‘excluded hardware’ without defining what ‘hardware’ comprised. There was a difference of opinion as to whether trim tabs were part of the running surface of the hull or an addition. It was decided to pass this to the NAVIGA Advisory Group to ask NAVIGA for clarification on their rules. The proposal to have trim tabs included in the overall length of the boat was put to the vote. There were 10 votes for and 4 abstentions.

11.9 SAWS Classes

David Harvey had been trying to find out about the German speed records. He had not managed to find the records but had found the classes that they run. David was asking if the members wanted to introduce these German classes which are based on cell counts of 1-20 for limited classes and 21+ cells for unlimited classes. A maximum terminal voltage of <60v to apply with a maximum single cell voltage of 4.23v, and a maximum gross weight of 140gm per cell. As there was not a class for tunnel hulls Peter Barrow suggested that this class could be added. David Harvey proposed that with the addition of the tunnel hull class the SAWS classes should include those as used by Germany. This was seconded by Paul Upton-Taylor. Passed unanimously. Further discussion took place around the existing classes for surface, sub-surface, and brushed motors. It was decided to drop the brushed motor classes, but keep the split for surface and sub-surface classes as existing.

11.10 Number Plates

The size of number plates for the mini classes was discussed. Currently our rules state that where there is a NAVIGA class then we run to NAVIGA sizes for number plates. Where there is no NAVIGA class then we use a 60mm x 60mm number plate. Aran Bond proposed that all classes use a 80mm x 80mm number plate. This was seconded by David Harvey. There were 16 for and 3 against.

11.11 Maximum Voltage for Electric Powered Boats

The maximum voltage for an electric powered boat was discussed. Martin Harvey said that the other sections of the MPBA had not been concerned about this and said that it was an issue for the Fast Electric Section. Martin explained that it was possible for a scale section boat to have electric power but what was their maximum voltage. There is nothing. There is a maximum i/c capacity of 35cc for insurance purposes, so there needs to be something for electric power. 60 volts was suggested. Stephe Hart said that a health and safety risk assessment would need to be done. Martin Harvey pointed out that 110v a/c was the accepted limit for external power tools and that the RMS value of this was 77v, so 60v should be safe. Phil Miller pointed out that anything under 60v does not need a PAT test so this also should be good enough for a safety guidance. 60 volts maximum terminal voltage was proposed by Paul Upton-Taylor and seconded by ??. Passed unanimously.

11.12 Battery Covering for LiPo Cells

There is nothing written down in the NAVIGA battery rules regarding heat shrink covering on LiPo batteries. Some competitors had produced batteries at the weigh-in without any secondary covering and these had been allowed as there were no written rules against it. NAVIGA states that we can add to their rules but we cannot contravene them. It was believed that at one time there was a NAVIGA rule stating that a heat shrink covering had to be used, but the latest rules did not state this. One member asked that if a manufacturer fitted a heat shrink covering then was this for safety reasons. Martin Harvey said that he believed that if the battery carried a CE mark then it probably was. It was left to the NAVIGA Advisory Group to ask NAVIGA why it had been left out.

Meeting closed at 9.25pm